Posted by Spooner | 25 Comments
Paladin PvP nerf and the future of Holy mp5.
Ok seriously, what’s the big fucking deal? How is it that every other class can be overpowered for weeks at a time and pretty much roll face over anybody and everybody, but the split second that a few people piss and moan about how the big bad paladin is beating on them Blizzard has a bitch fit about it and starts nerfing things left and right. EXPLAIN THIS BULLSHIT. I don’t even PvP often enough anymore and this shit gets to me, every day it a new post from some butthurt little mage or priest or god-for-fucking-bid warlock crying about how the ret paladin killed him or how the holy paladin won’t die.
“I mean he killed me! ME! He made me bleed my own blood! This is unacceptable, nerf nerf nerf!”
Holy and Ret paladins have in some form been on top of the current and previous Arena season. Furthermore, we think part of the reason some players, especially casters, feel like they are dying so quickly in PvP is because they can’t use their crowd control abilities without them getting quickly removed. Freedom was a big part of that. It’s supposed to be “Get out of jail free” card, not “you can’t ever cc me” card. If that makes sense.
It is still a very potent ability, especially talented, which almost all PvP paladins do. To be honest, we’re concerned the duration is still too long.
See? They’re concerned the duration is still too long… it’s blessing of freedom you fucktards not blessing of almost got away. This makes me laugh because casters are the ones doing all the bitching, but nobody dare say shit about death grip or deadly throw or escape artist or blink, or cloak of shadows, or chains of ice, or charge, or intercept, or demonic circle, do I continue? Assholes.
Also here’s some more crap that doesn’t interest me about holy paladin gear in Ulduar and how it sucks because all holy paladins want is intellect and haste.
The problem we have is paladins are now telling us “This MP5 on our gear is useless. Give us a better stat instead.” We don’t think that will result in a balanced outcome for the reasons I have mentioned. We’re not talking about nerfing paladins for no good reason. We’re talking about shifting the sources of your regen so that the Ulduar gear is perceived as an upgrade. I don’t accept the logic that it’s impossible to make paladins care about MP5 or that denying paladins more crit and Int will get them gkicked.
I know what you’re saying like on my old realm and my new one all I hear is people bitching about the pally that wtf pwnd them, IMO I think that it’s really just skill that kills people, even the most unlikely of classes can take out the big boys such as the dk or pally, you just need to know what you’re doing, so less QQ please. Like on my druid which is balance I took out a ret pally and a dk in BG’s (lol was probably by chance) but still doesn’t mean they’re invincible.
Honestly I’m not happy about the paladin news. I’ve build my entire gear around int and haste right now, my entire healing rotation relies on the int and haste I have. If they start reducing those talents and giving me mp5 or some other shit my entire play style will have to change based entirely on them wanting me to put on new gear. Yes it sucks that paladins are not generally interested in switching out their nax gear for uldar gear but the solution is not forcing us to change, just give us what we want on our gear.
Fuck Pallies. Your class is a overpowered now fucking deal with the nerf.
Why so hostile? O.o
He’s probably hostile because he got stomped in a BG or Arena by a paladin or couldn’t get it hard enough to kill a paladin healer. Or it’s a troll.
Im assuming all the the ppl moaning about the nerfs are all pala players.
Pala’s are op always have been.
1) Plate class – Hence the most durable against physical dps.
2) Healers – Already stacks on top of thier durability
3) Awesome burst dps.
In one class. What other class combines all that?
Wings+Aoe damage kills virtually instantly. Bubble Makes them invulnerable….and they can cast it on thier friendly rogue friend. Mounted speed makes them farming gods.
They have crazee stuns. They ignore a lot of cc and snares etc. And they Buff other players like mad.
Tank/Heal/DPS. Seriously what cant they do?
Think about any other class…they arent nearly as versatile and that includes the so called “jack of all” class that are druids.
And in pve they are freaking fantastic. I never go “oh no a paladin joined the raid.” Ever.
Blizz themselves think the class is op…….so what does that say.
The whole class needs to be rethought. Back in vanilla they where kinda balanced by the fact that they did poor dps. That hasn’t been the case for years.
Seriously you just have to click the “enter the 2v2 arena” battke and most of the fight is over. If you want to cry about the nerfs, go play minesweeper or bejeweled if you want to play a one click game.
ROFL, i just laugh at paladins complaining about being nerfed. FFS, you got a fucking BUBBLE and can do sick DPS inside it. OH, you can’t 2 shot people anymore, only 3 shot, i really feel your pain, not.
Worst day in wow life: when horde got bubbleboys. Fuck that. I’m sick of BGs full of paladins and Death Knights.
oh yes the bubble the allmightybubble! it can be dispelled by priests, it is ignored by destro locks, it can be dispelled by warriors now actually. if you’re getting 2 shot or 3 shot by a paladin in PvP then you’re using raiding gear only and have shit for health. if you let a paladin stay on you long enough to let you get torn down you’re just bad at PvP, do something else or get better.
ret paladins in the high ups that destroy are typically geared to fuck and guess what, so will any other melee class that has good gear. you’re sick of BGs; see that’s your problem, you’re still living in the past where you think BATTLEGROUNDS is still PvP that anybody at blizzard gives a flying fuck about. you want their attention and their “balance” go QQ in the arena.
ROFL – Spooner your the biggest QQ’er of all. The fact that Blizz thinks Pallies are OP means nothing to your tunnel vision. Every class gets nerfs at various stages of the games lifecycle. The fact that it may be yours makes you cry like a little baby.
Go back to school and get a life.
Tim let me get your address so i can send you an entire fucking crate of Tampons ok? No charge I swear.
Hope I don’t get flamed for this from the paly haters.
Me as a shadow priest + inner fire = 5565 armor (26.76% physical damage reduction) + 15% for shadow form = 41.76% (Not even going to mention power word:shield…).
A ret paladin in my guild has 13483 armor = 46.95% physical damage reduction… Not much of a difference, let alone shadow form is 15% from ALL damage.
Fact of the matter is “BOO HOO HE WEARS PLATE” is a Vanilla WoW response, since TBC and WOTLK every class has received buffs on survivability, just people aren’t used to having to use them vs ret pallys.
It’s also comical that people say “Paladins QQ , just adapt to your nerfs” … how about everybody else stop QQ’ing and adapt to paladin’s buffs?
ok, i played a hunter as my main. I am alos a BIG pvper, and i am fair at it. but on my twinks and hunter and every other toon i had when i whent up against a pally i GENERALLY couldnt beat it. as others have said. Paladins- Hammer, Bubble, Heal. nothing more needs to be said. Paladins are OP. now on the other hand i got sick of it and made a pally. I LOVE IT!!! so sence i am an average selfish human being im going to go ahead and side with pallys sence i made one. PLEASE DONT NERF THEM I LOVE KILLING SOMEONE THAT FAST!!!!!!! PLZ!!!!!! ITS SOOOOOO EASY I DONT WANT BLIZZARD TO NERF IT!!!!! ok im done lol.
LOL sure its skill that lets you faceroll with 2 button smashing, funny I remember paladins before they were OP, It’s gonna be a long couple of years for you guys now lol. The time for you to Gtratz yourself is fking over.
lol I’ve played a pally since release – we’ve had good times, bad times, and everything in between. It’s true, 3.0 + Ret was stupid. Hitting buttons on a first come first served basis is as lame as it gets. But lets take something like a mage…
Mages have never been bad at pvp, theyve never been good either. It’s entirely based on the player. Most mages, no matter what the class, I steamroll. However, one of the best pvpers on my server is a mage. I would NEVER bet against her. – not a chance. Why did I bring that up? Simple….
Mages and other classes have alot to complain about, but on the pally’s defense, a mage has never been the -absolute- worst choice for pvp, Pally’s have. Point I’m getting at is that we’ve seen the best and the worst. I realize that the grass is always greener, but as good as it feels being able to slam my face on the keyboard and do just as good as the next pvper, it sucks to the same extreme when I cant take out a dancing, naked, afk priest.
I would personally like them to finally get it right… for everyone’s sake.
No matter what character I play when I pvp, I can never beat a pally 1 on 1. Its not even a fair fight. I will be killing them, they are just about to die and what do you know… They bubble, then run at me and kill me within seconds.. To hear all these paladins complain about getting nerfed, makes me laugh. It is time to get the nerf stick out, and get wrecked Paladins…
I’m not opposed to nerfing paladins (especially ret paladins), but I’m not convinced that Blizzard is doing it the right way. I still have my sights set on the “sheath of light” and “touched by the light” abilities that give free spellpower (and hence big heals) to rets and prots (as much fun as it is to play, the prot healer is a mistake and shouldn’t be feasible). I’m glad that they’re at least removing the AP scaling with Judgement of Light in 3.2; why not remove the aforementioned talents and scale the spec-specific abilities with spec-specific stats (e.g. consecration with stamina)?
what makes me laugh is how this thread turned mostly into RET spec QQ/defense…
I for once am Holy, always been, always will be, dont give a damn about pvp because I dont do any, neither arenas nor BGs so I very simply DONT care about any of some petty pvp problems…what I dont like is that blizz is changing my healing build which is going go down to drain… best response so far on this page is this:
“Fact of the matter is “BOO HOO HE WEARS PLATE” is a Vanilla WoW response, since TBC and WOTLK every class has received buffs on survivability, just people aren’t used to having to use them vs ret pallys.
It’s also comical that people say “Paladins QQ , just adapt to your nerfs” … how about everybody else stop QQ’ing and adapt to paladin’s buffs?”
boo hoo…he wears plate…its always brought up, but shadow priests can take more damage than ret, negating all damage, plate is a PHYSICAL damage, now for all you no brainers, there are only 3 classes in wow that are truely affected by it: druids, warriors and Blood specced DKs – THATS IT! plate does jack shit against magic of any form, rogues use poisons on top of their melee so its a 50/50 case…think before you post something to support your little cry fit.
old school players used to kicking paladins around just cant get over the fact that now its a pally kicking them around, and all the newcomers to wow jump on that train, and they cannot be blamed for it after all, they dont know any better!
its true that ret has too much output upfront, they dont do buildup, they drop everything at once, wait their cooldown time, and repeat…its how blizz made it, now they can fix it, prot also has a bit too much healing for a tank. what bothers me is that as a healer, mp5 gear even with that 25% buff to mp5 is just shit.
why a chest with spell/crit/haste has more haste, than a plate with spell/haste/mp5 for example? if I’m lacking crit on it, shouldnt haste be at least highier than the one from non-mp5 piece??? blizz went the easy way out…oh, people dont like our idea of how they should gear up – lets just force them to it… gg from their side
wow spooner you think other people are butthurts,trolls and QQing noobs look at yourself lmao.. your a pally thats QQing because hes going to get nerfed so he wont be able to one hitz those clothy nubz anymorez? poor baby reroll you fucking gay ass drama queen. suckk myyy nutsack pallies
Hehe, I love it when people run with the whole, endingz everyz wordz withz Zz thingz, its such a mature way to make a pointz…
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Anyways, I am a prot Pally. I was holy in Vanilla and remained so in TBC. When Patch 3.0 hit was the first time I ever specced to Ret. It was WAY over powered. I could kill anything (if i got crit lucky) in 2-3 hits and end the fight with full health and mana Lv 70). It was fun but short lived. Pally face rolls were due to our high crit hits on all of our attacks (it was not uncommon to see numbers in the area of 5-6k at lv 70). We could bubble and wing at the same time (OMG OP I agree), regained 33% mana on each judge and the introduction of the added Spell power made our heals about as good as a holy pally in greens (at the time). Those were the changes that made Pallies OP.
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Since (and almost immediately after it went live) Wings+bubble=win, was taken from us (good, were back to where we were before, on that one), !!!NERF TRAIN!!!, then smacked us accross the face and made it so ALL dps done while bubbled was decreased by 50% (not a fair nerf since that was a common Pally trait before 3.0)
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Second, all of our seal/judge damage was recalculated along the lines of this formula. SP+AP + base damage x 2 = {damage} -70%= NURF TRAIN! (pallies were now judging for less at level 73 than they were at 70 pre WotLK). Oh ya, and this was across the board btw not just Ret, so good luck leveling as Holy.
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Third, the mana regen was directly dropped from 33% to 15% per judge. making us oom faster in a fight. Now this was a nerf, but I agree it was fair. We were still better off then we were in TBC mana wise.
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Fourth, our Spell power as Ret or Prot can seem unfair… but the issue is we (Prot) can heal for a crap load (usually over heal and wasted) for a short time, because our mana is not as extensive as a Holy Pally. making it good for short encounters only. Ret has no good spell power in healer gear due to the fact that there SP is based on AP not Stam and there is no AP in healer gear. So that argument is pointless.
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In conclusion, Pallies have been facerolling for a while, but ill tell you right now if a pally were to crit all three of his/her attacks on initial burst during an arena match (which is not to often) you will be looking at these numbers on average/leaning high. Judgment 3k (7sec cooldown), Divine storm 4.5k (10 second cooldown) and crusader strike 4k (6 Second Cooldown). that’s only 11.5 k damage, in 3 global cooldowns. If you are in arena and you don’t have 20k Hp (and ur not a healer) you deserve to die to the pally that is geared enough to pull off these numbers. Yes, we also have a stun, it has a 20-60 second CD (depending on spec) and if you cant figure a way to get out of it in 4 seconds (average time before we maintain decent DPS), then get out of PVP environments and give me a call, because I could use someone who can suck that well in my life. We were OP, ya, but we were UP before that, and we are decent now. Pallies burst, we arrive at the club and blow our load on the stripper before she even drops her top, then we stand there for an extended (for PVP) period holding our junk and drink a glass of milk while we re-coop and try not to die(I.E. heal or bubble).
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If you want to kill a pally, draw it out. use fear, stun, slows… make our GCDs own us.
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So, I do not think the nerfs have been fair, but then again… I play on the PTR and I am here to tell you, were not being nerfed. Rets and prots will both see DPS increases. Holy will rely more on MP5 than base regen, but oh well nothing has really changed for the dynamic. You will still Flash till your nose bleeds but now you get a HOT after it on SS’d members, at the cost of 30% mana return on a crit, so deal with it.
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Change does not = Nerf. Change = Annoying
Were being changed, not nerfed.
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I have read many of the post above and one thing holds true, that all the complaints come from the area of PvP.
I play a paladin and started playing when BC was released and I know during that time retribution paladins were scoffed at in PvE. I know I didn’t play at the release and I heard horrible stories about how poorly paladins were at tanking and dps; but when WOTLK hit I thought to myself, “Finally, I can dps and actually be an assets to the raid.”
Granted when it first hit we were OP…I mean a bubble and wings at the same time…Please! But they fixed that and every time I turn around here come the nerf stick again because someone in a PvP environment was destroyed by a paladin. Chances are this individual doesn’t PvP much and believes his class should rule the BG’s.
In the end, every class complains about another classes “OPness” but each has vulnerabilities. Personally, I hate rouges and warlocks and refuse to heal them in BG’s. I have pwned so many times by the dot, dot, dot and fear routine it’s enough to drive me nuts not to mention the zap, kick, stun and dps the crap out of me rouges.
I must say I wish Blizz would just make a tree just for PvP so those of us that enjoy PvE do not have to constantly adjust to the PvP QQer’s.
Ok… im a moonkin druid and here goes the typical fight against a ret pally. Hammer of
justice. I pop barkskin so my armor of 14000 or so 44.56% reduction, plus another 20%
reduction from all dmg with barkskin. whack whack whack, if i survive its with less than 3k
health then here comes the hammer dead. So am i doing something wrong here? I cant
cc. the pally i can cyclone him to run away from him before he hammer of justices me and
i die but other than that I have no clue on how i can manage to live against something
that can just burst dmg like that. holy resistance maybe >.> but it doesnt exist.
I have read throu most of the comments etc… and i play a huntard!!
I agree on the concept that each class should counter another class like the “rock paper scissors” routine BUT sometimes the scissor is much tougher than the rock and the rock gets owned :O!
How could this happen?? is blizz to blame? Is it the pala skill issue? or is it the nub that cant handle the fact that he has to press so many buttons just to escape and that it should rather be 1 magical button
??
Well IMO, i think its all of them, blizz shouldnt create so much confusion about giving a change (whether its a nerf or a buff) in pvp but rather leave all the changes for arena where serious pvp takes place, that if we dont get whack whack whack GG, ok, bring the next bitch….
Paladins should take more skill to play with, cause i dont care if you represent the number one fanboy of palaworld, where the pala’s chill and hangout, you need to work harder because as a hunter, i have to fuckup my keyboard everytime i pvp (thats how much button smashing i have to do), i dont HATE pala, dont get me wrong, i just hate it when it looks faaaaaar to easy for them to kill me or another class, if it was just more awesomeness (with more button pressing) so that i could respect them, i wouldnt be here..
The noobs out there that cant kill pala,dont worry, adjusting sucks BUT google can help you to adjust or go to http://www.arenajunkies.com or something, check the forum and players build and find out how they survive long enough to pull off a win or sustain a long battle.. i go there quite abit >> and it has helped me abit since it takes 5 whacks in stead or 3
for them to kill me and im proud of that achievement!!!!
thats my 2 cents comment…
p.s i have no issue with prot pala, just the others
hey guys holy paladin is where its at , forget ret.
Paladins need a big nerf. You know pvp is unbalanced when you can determine the outcome of the battleground by whichever side has more paladins.
Maybe blizz should just put all the paladins together into their own battlegrounds and arenas. Then they could just attack, bubble/loh, rinse/repeat at infinitum.
I think this is just hilarious.
You people who are saying that paladins need to jog on and deal with, obviously can’t PvP for shit. My main, Felled (hunter) can kite a paladin to shreds, he gets to close? Deterance. He gets to close again? Disengage, run, jump-conc-shot, kite.
It’s not hard. Those abilities i just linked? Yeah, every class has similar ones.
I also play a paladin (Nhazgùl, tank ms, healer os), and while they’re a fun class, they’re defiantly not “QQ OP!!!11!!”.