Wrath of the Lich King Class Discussions and News for August 27th
This one here is short and sweet but at least we’re getting some sort of intel on Rogues and Priests. For my priests out there, I noticed that based on all the changes going on currently in the Beta; Priests will be able to sustain a level of DPS and high survivability as any of the 3 specs. I think that the first step to feeling good about your class again would be to forget everything you know where shadow is the ONLY DPS spec and Holy is the ONLY healing spec. Discipline is coming into it’s own right very nicely and shadow and holy are getting some love as well.
Priest
Upcoming Penance changes
Some changes to Penance are incoming:
- The first tick will be virtually instant (so overall the channel is now 2 seconds, not 3)
- The mana cost has been cut roughly in half.
- There’s a new Discipline talent that will make it more interesting (src)
Warlock
Demonic Circle - The looping and sound issues will be fixed soon, as well as some other random bugs with the ability. (src)
Druid
Typhoon - It’s not finished, no. We’re still working on the new graphic for it, and also considering a different design path for it. (src)
Warrior
Intensify Rage and Precision switched places in the talent tree
As you expressed it Intensify Rage is required for PvP. Therefore Precision and Intensify Rage have now switched places in the talent tree. We want this to be something that a furry warrior has access to without making arms warriors feel they have to have it to be functional. (src)
Rogue
Lack of changes/feedback on Rogues
Beta implies that the game is in a testing process and currently incomplete. Your assistance in testing and providing feedback is much appreciated, however, we ask that you remain patient while we continue to push out new content, abilities, and balancing adjustments each week.
No class is going to be left behind when all is said and done. The point of working through a Beta process is to ensure the product is fully polished by the time it is slated for release. We ask that you consider this before expressing frustration over a lack of battle-ready talents and abilities for your class in its current state. We will continue to push out changes for the Rogue class — as with every other class — so you will all have plenty of time to test out the updates. (src)
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Aug 27th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
They better do some really good things for PvE rogues and soon, because they’re looking absolutely pathetic. Unless they make some major changes (and increase PvE damage), no one in thier right mind will bring a rogue to a group or raid. Not with mages putting out 8k DPS and with warriors being the new DPS-machine monsters at lvl 80.
Aug 27th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
I agree that rogues need work with their numbers but when I said that they need less work than others it’s because the class itself as a damage dealer is not fundamentally broken by any stretch of the imagination.
Rogues deal amazing damage right now, all of their abilities scale BEAUTIFULLY with gear, and by looking at some of the itemization (however new and unpolished it may be) will keep that niche.
Since the game first began rogues have always been at the top of PVE DPS food chain as far as efficient and effective DPS (no over aggro) and in PVP up until most recently in the scope of the game, rogues have been the apex hunters of the battlefield.
Additionally I wouldn’t exactly consider them to be completely pathetic in their current state at all. If you compare them to the other classes I can see how they don’t look as FUN and come across as lack luster or “same old stuff” but then again that’s the mistake a lot of people do when they compare classes. You will never be satisfied when comparing a mage or hunter to a rogue or even a warrior as the dynamics and type of damage dealt is so completely different that obviously the results will be seriously stacked in favor of the other.
No one in their right mind would ever bring a rouge to a raid for anything OTHER THAN the amount of damage they can deal. Rogues have shit for raid utility but I am hoping with WotLK maybe they’ll get the “plays well with others” talent placed into their lineup.
Aug 28th, 2008 at 1:56 am
“Additionally I wouldn’t exactly consider them to be completely pathetic in their current state at all.”
If you’re talking about their state in TBC, you’re correct. If you’re talking about how they are in WotLK beta as of the latest talent build, you’ve got to be kidding - they’re dead last in the damage-dealing department, and as you noted, rogues don’t bring much of anything to the table except their exceptionally high DPS output. So, as of the latest build in beta, there is no reason to bring a rogue to a group or raid.
Aug 28th, 2008 at 7:53 am
I’d like for them to be given not only the DPS buff that would bring them in line with the other damage dealers but at the same time I’m content with them having to sacrifice some of that raw DPS to have more utility.
Maybe a debuff they can hit the mob with that causes them to miss more often (go for the eyes!) or better yet a more niche ability that acts like a disarm but in reverse, makes it so the mob can’t parry at all for X amount of time.
Things like Turn the Tables or Honor Among Thieves are a great start but seem to benefit the rogue only and not anybody else.
Aug 28th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Having every DPS class do the exact same damage would be a really stupid thing to do, and certain classes deserve to have noticably higher damage output than others - namely, rogues, mages and to a lesser extent hunters and locks. Every post I’ve seen that’s similar to yours (speaking about wanting rogue PvE DPS output nerfed) stems from class envy. Rogue DPS output should be kept at the same ratio as it is now in TBC - if they really want to force rogues to sacrifice DPS for utility (which isn’t why I rolled a rogue in the first place, BTW), then that will require a complete and total overhaul of not only the entire class, but the entire class design philosophy.
No half-assed, slapped-on utility buff will justify having rogues do the exact same amount of damage as a shadow priest or boomkin. Especially not when they’re completely nerfing raid buffs across the board to place less emphasis on their importance.
Aug 28th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
I think you’re missing the point. I don’t personally want Rogue’s PVE damage output to be brought down, I’m just saying what WILL happen guaranteed as Tigole and all the other developers on the beta forums have said many many times “if we buff DPS then we’re going to balance that by removing some utility, if we buff utility, then we’re going to slightly nerf the DPS” this is just to keep each class somewhat unique in that you don’t expect a shadow priest do the damage of a rogue per say.
Rogues as far as I know have a VERY hard time finding a solid raid group because A) there are already about 1,000 other rogues equally geared on that server all fighting for the same raid spots and B) they don’t bring anything but DPS to the table so why not bring a hunter instead that can maybe not match DPS but brings more group buffs and such ot more than make up for it.
I’m not suggesting even a half-assed slapped on ability or talent that would fix it, no that’s a band aid and those don’t last long at all do they. I’m thinking perhaps the a rogue should be able to debuff their enemies in a different way other than… well hell they don’t debuff at all do they? Poisons, Hemo (lol) stuns (bosses immune) alright I can grant that much but the list is really really short. What I would suggest would be flat out adding MORE to the rogue, give him MORE tools that he can choose to use for PVE purposes that would actually make me think “oh shit you know what? I really need a rogue now that’d be great!”
In burning crusade I want to say with pure honesty that most of the time the only reason I saw a rogue in a raid was because the raid leader WAS a rogue, he was a friend of mine, or we needed somebody to take the loot because sharding 90% of the epics was getting too demoralizing for us.
If you ever want to know what exactly it is that I want out of this game in the way of changes, for rogues and EVERY class; is less RNG.
There is nothing more BULLSHIT in my eyes than random chances to proc something like stun/daze/root/etc. So warriors and rogues having their mace spec stun removed was AWESOME to me. They called it a nerf I called it bringing more skill into the game instead of just cheap shitty luck.
Some people are like you, they rolled a rogue for one reason only, to do damage. I totally respect that, but when other classes catch up to or even surpass your net worth to the group I don’t like to hear bitching. Players in general have to start thinking that while you CAN solo the entire game, if you want to group you need to start bringing more to the table other than a few button mashings and DPS; unless your DPS is more than 20% of the entire raid’s. Making one single class really outshine by such a large margin seems a little stingy and smells of poor design.